In Dulce Et Decorum Est, what is the narrator's attitude or tone toward war? Is there a rhythm to the poem? And what is the purpose of Owen using the Latin phrases?
Wilfred Owen was not about to hide his thoughts through his poetry. Instead, he used it as a method of explaining the harsh reality of war to his audience. Owen hates war with a passion and uses imagery to give his audience a glimpse of what they cannot see. His attitude towards war is that of disgust which is also reflected in his poem when he uses descriptively disgusting words such as "drunk with fatigue," "guttering," "chocking," "froth-corrupted," and "obscene." He says that war has men persisting and trudging forward through disaster only to walk straight into more obstacles and eventually die. The entire first paragraph of this poem was written in iambic pentameter. The second and last paragraphs had lines of iambic pentameter as well but were interrupted by lines not following that rhythmic pattern. The use of repetitive rhythm makes the ugly poem flow in a beautiful way to support his point of ugly hiding behind lies of positivity. The lines that do not fit in might have been strategically placed to stick out as a reminder of the obvious truths of war that we cover and hide from. Owen used Latin phrases for his title and also for the ending line of the poem that translate to "It is not sweet and fitting to die for one's country." Just as he hid his point through the use of a different language, we hide the brutal reality of war from our audience, every non enlisted person in American. We don't understand how horrible war is because we have not experienced it. We do not and will never understand the real meaning until we look further into it. Owen does not think that it is sweet to die for the country because nothing that leads up to death nor death itself is sweet. It is a disaster that nobody should have to live through.
Death at a young age is something no one should have to experience. However, war often causes many young people to die. The soldiers struggle through difficulties and eventually die, something that may seem unavoidable. However, Owen's disgust of war shows that he believes these realities terrible crimes that should never occur. His use of imagery helps support this thought.
I like what you said about Owen attempting to hide the ugliness of the poem's reality behind the beauty of the poem's rhythm. I often find it very interesting when poets use indistinct aspects of poetry (such as rhythm or tone) to support the viewpoints mentioned in their poem. You also mentioned the breaks in rhythm. I think it's possible that he uses these curt changes in rhythm to support his feelings that war has the capability to change one's perspectives almost instantaneously.
Wilfred Owen uses this poem to show how war can affect people as it progresses. He uses a deteriorating rhyming scheme that contributes to his vivid descriptions of war. He also uses Latin phrases to help make his point. Owen does not approve of war. This in part comes from his own time as a soldier during World War I. He uses graphic imagery to help convey his distaste. Phrases such as "blood-shod," "obscene as cancer," and "helpless sight" contribute to Owen's portrayal of war as ugly and brutal. He also uses the structure of the poem to contribute to this image. The poem begins with very structured stanzas which then fall apart as the poem continues. This helps the reader feel the effects of war as they read. The rhythm in this poem is best seen in the structure and rhyme of the stanzas. The poem uses an every other line rhyming scheme. This gives it a subtle sense of rhythm. However, as the stanzas fall apart, so does the rhyme. Both of these serve to interrupt the reader and make them uncomfortable, just as war does for the speaker. The use of Latin points the reader back to Ancient Rome, when the poem the phrase is taken from originated. During this period of time, war was revered. Romans conquered most of Europe and viewed battle as glorious. In fact, Romans only received a name on their tomb if they died in battle or in childbirth. War was a celebrated and integral part of Roman life. The translation of the phrase helps drive this point home. It means "It is sweet and fitting to die for one's country." However, Owen maintains that this statement is a lie. This juxtaposition of the conventional and unconventional ways of thought shows how radical Owen's thinking was. This poem is a reminder that war is not good. It destroys people to watch their friends die in front of them. The structure of this poem helps convey the helplessness soldiers feel as their world falls apart.
It seems like we had the same thoughts regarding the rhythm of the poem falling apart, and how Owen uses this to signify war. I also mentioned in my blog that I thought Owen strayed from his iambic pentameter to draw attention to the fact that many people have misconceptions about the outcomes of war, and these misconceptions are quickly corrected as one's war experience proceeds, and everything seems to "fall apart."
That is a very interesting thought concerning the rhythm and rhyme of this poem. I never noticed how it fell apart, although I did notice the rhythmic patterns changing. There is a lot to poetry and I sometimes wonder if it is strategically planned in that creative and artistic way or if it is irony and our over analysis. Either way, it's impressive.
Ashley, I also noticed the rhythm starting to fall apart as I read it. However, I didn't really think about it much when I was reading it. Looking back on it though, it makes a lot of sense why he didn't want it to be in iambic pentameter.
The poem, Dulce Et Decorum Est presents the sad realities of a life at war, and invites the viewer to look deeper into the sentiments and dispositions of an individual who has experienced such hardships firsthand. The narrator of the poem has a certain attitude towards war that becomes evident as one studies the poem. From what I could see, the narrator views war as a hellish experience that robs one of their joy and carefree nature. The gruesome details such as "drunk with fatigue" or "he plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning" show just how horrid war can be. In my opinion, this viewpoint contrasts somewhat with many peoples' conception of war. While it is broadly known that war is anything but pleasant, many individuals feel that these struggles were worth it, as they made our country what it is today. This poem does not reflect those same sentiments. There is a distinct rhythm to the poem, although it was not entirely obvious to me at first. Firstly, the first paragraph is written in iambic pentameter. I did not realize this until I read it through a few times. I think this has some significance to the meaning of the poem, as it begins with a rather structured outlook, but this is quickly abandoned as a new rhythm is introduced in the proceeding paragraph. This kind of mirrors one's perception of war, as it is often entirely different as one experiences it. Additionally, I noticed that every other line in the poem rhymed. Again, I did not detect this at first, as I was too intrigued by the words themselves to worry about the rhythm. The rhyming of the poem presents itself in an odd way, as it does not sound cliche, nor does it sound like a nursery rhyme. Rather, it is almost concealed by the drastic wording. It seems to me that the reason Owen included the Latin phrase at the end was to conceal a deeper meaning. If Owen had simply left the phrase in English, it would not have the same effect. Additionally, I think it's possible that Owen wanted to keep this significance hidden from the reader so that whoever read this poem would have to look up the phrase to fully understand the poem. This way, he can ensure that whoever reads the poem can fully comprehend it for what it is. I also think that there is some historical significance, but as I have very limited knowledge when it comes to history, I'm not entirely sure of this significance.
I like how you pointed out that the rhyming was no cliche. Sometimes rhyme can make a poem sound childish or uneducated, but this was not the case in Owen's poem. In fact, the rhyme was very subtle and almost unnoticeable during the reading. I believe this was helped by his use of other sophisticated diction throughout the lines. The vivid imagery he produces masks the rhyme of the poem. The rhyme was only apparent upon close scrutiny, which was thematically significant.
Mary, we always talk about rhyming so I think it's funny you brought up this point! I think it's so much easier to write a poem if it rhymes but that's just me. I would much rather read a poem that doesn't rhyme, however. This poem was an exception because it wasn't the typical childish rhyming that you hear in some poems. I actually think his rhyming really added to the piece.
I agee, Mary. I believe Owen writes his last phrase in Latin to make the readers uncover the deeper meaning. It is like going on a treasure hunt to uncover a buried treasure, but instead of gold and riches, you are unveiling the thoughts of a person. It also invites people to think more about it because if you care to know more, you will translate the sentence. The people who care enough to then ponder it more.
I've decided that I really like Wilfred Owen. There's something very respectable about someone that can be that brutally honest. Also, I think this piece shows that the experiences you have in your life influence the way you view your environment. Owen's experiences make the way he viewed the poem a lot different than how I would view it with my experiences. I kind of find it funny whenever we are exposed to something that can be up to interpretation and different people always have their own spin on what they think it means. Owen is very good at showing the audience the things they have not experienced. He uses imagery extensively to talk about war and back up his points about why he hates it. After he does so, it is not hard to see why he hates it. He talks about how terrible it is by using descriptive words such as glittering and obscene. By doing this, he achieves his goal of showing the audience what they don't know. the poem also has a definite rhythm which makes it flow well from one phrase to another. The flow of the poem fits with the meaning that it starts out okay, but it slowly starts to fall apart. It becomes choppy and awkward, falling in with the author's tone. I think the beginning of the poem is a juxtaposition to the real meaning of the poem.
Owen's honesty comes off a bit harsh, but I also have a lot of respect for him. He will not glorify what is wrong. Every time I think about war I am drawn back to Medal of Honor class. I have an extreme appreciation for these people, especially the one who are not afraid to tell their stories, good or bad. It takes a lot of strength to say what people do not want to hear.
I think it is also funny when there is something like this that is left up for interpretation, and people of course will go ahead and interpret it differently. But if everyone interpreted a piece of art exactly the same, where's the fun I'm arguing about who's interpretation is better? There wouldn't be. A world where everyone agreed with everyone else seems kinda lame. Everybody has their own story to tell. Even if people try to tell the same the story, it'll end up being a little bit different from person to person.
I think it is pretty obvious that Owen despises the very thought of war. But I mean, this isn't very shocking. Does anybody actually like war? Sure, it does some good stuff...like stimulate economic growth. But would you rather have something like economic growth with some casualties or a stagnant economy where every man, woman, and child gets to have their husband, wife, or family member come home? I think a poem like this drives home what the soldiers who serve our country think of that question. And with all the soldiers who come home with PTSD, who can really blame them for having this opinion? I know I do not blame them. The rhythm alluded me for quite a while...I'm not exactly the most adept at finding these things, so I was pretty much ready to just give up. But...then the image of Mrs. Messineo walking around the room in that ridiculous fashion made me realize that the first paragraph was written in iambic pentameter. I was so relieved. I had something to actually write down in my blog now. So I guess that walking style isn't really that ridiculous if I can remember stuff like that. The second and third paragraph's rhythm was extremely easy to notice, as every other line rhymed. I probably should've put that first, since I figured that out first...but...sorry about that. I believe the purpose of that Latin phrase at the end was to signify that he didn't want to die overseas. After all, I think that would kind of suck to die in a jungle and get buried in the canopy. I would rather have a nice proper burial. More importantly than that though, I would love to die of old age some day with my family gathered around and Gustav Mahler's 5th Symphony playing in the background. Dying in a jungle with the sounds of bullets instead of the sound of music certainly does not exactly instill excitement. I would imagine a soldier would not differ in that thought.
I like how you pointed out about PTSD relaxing to this blog, Nick because I pointed it out before I even read yours. You are right. It is a sad death that soldiers are forced into when at war. Sadly, many people do not realize it because many people fail to look at the truths of war and how it affects soldiers. It is good to be proud of soldiers but it is even more imperative to understand their struggles.
Wilfred Owen shows his abhorrence for war by using unflattering nouns and adjectives. In the very first line, Owen describes the soldiers as looking like "beggars under sacks." This paints an image as the soldiers being in need of mercy and help. The first paragraph is rotten in iambic pentameter, but as it goes on and Owen discusses more graphic, horrific sights, Owen does not keep his rhythm. It shows the loss war gives people and how the traumas can change your thinking. Something once seen as heroic and beautiful turned into something disastrous. The purpose of Owen using the Latin phrase for “It is sweet and fitting to die for one’s country'" is to show he has a deeper meaning that the reader must uncover. The Latin words strike the reader as being much more mellifluous and prettier than the simple English words. It contradicts the harsh language previously used to describe the war. This is fitting because it is deceptive. The beauty in the last line understates the heinous described before, and I think this helps because Owen is sharing his story to contradict the images of war. War is seen as patriotic, and soldiers are seen as heroes. This causes many people to overlook the atrocities committed in war. This poem would actually be really good propaganda for raising awareness for PTSD common among veterans. Many people get so lost in the glorification of soldiers that they forget the tool many soldiers took on their mind to keep their country safe.
I like how you interpreted the Latin phrase's use. I guess Latin can be considered a "romance", or just "pretty" language. But it seems a little bit startling that after all the harsh language that Owen uses to describe war he uses a beautiful language to describe his almost desire to return home. And even though the horrors of war may lessen when the soldiers are discharged, as you mentioned, the horrors are never truly gone, as many soldiers suffer from PTSD.
Wilfred Owen was not about to hide his thoughts through his poetry. Instead, he used it as a method of explaining the harsh reality of war to his audience.
ReplyDeleteOwen hates war with a passion and uses imagery to give his audience a glimpse of what they cannot see. His attitude towards war is that of disgust which is also reflected in his poem when he uses descriptively disgusting words such as "drunk with fatigue," "guttering," "chocking," "froth-corrupted," and "obscene." He says that war has men persisting and trudging forward through disaster only to walk straight into more obstacles and eventually die.
The entire first paragraph of this poem was written in iambic pentameter. The second and last paragraphs had lines of iambic pentameter as well but were interrupted by lines not following that rhythmic pattern. The use of repetitive rhythm makes the ugly poem flow in a beautiful way to support his point of ugly hiding behind lies of positivity. The lines that do not fit in might have been strategically placed to stick out as a reminder of the obvious truths of war that we cover and hide from.
Owen used Latin phrases for his title and also for the ending line of the poem that translate to "It is not sweet and fitting to die for one's country." Just as he hid his point through the use of a different language, we hide the brutal reality of war from our audience, every non enlisted person in American. We don't understand how horrible war is because we have not experienced it. We do not and will never understand the real meaning until we look further into it. Owen does not think that it is sweet to die for the country because nothing that leads up to death nor death itself is sweet. It is a disaster that nobody should have to live through.
Death at a young age is something no one should have to experience. However, war often causes many young people to die. The soldiers struggle through difficulties and eventually die, something that may seem unavoidable. However, Owen's disgust of war shows that he believes these realities terrible crimes that should never occur. His use of imagery helps support this thought.
DeleteI like what you said about Owen attempting to hide the ugliness of the poem's reality behind the beauty of the poem's rhythm. I often find it very interesting when poets use indistinct aspects of poetry (such as rhythm or tone) to support the viewpoints mentioned in their poem. You also mentioned the breaks in rhythm. I think it's possible that he uses these curt changes in rhythm to support his feelings that war has the capability to change one's perspectives almost instantaneously.
DeleteWilfred Owen uses this poem to show how war can affect people as it progresses. He uses a deteriorating rhyming scheme that contributes to his vivid descriptions of war. He also uses Latin phrases to help make his point.
ReplyDeleteOwen does not approve of war. This in part comes from his own time as a soldier during World War I. He uses graphic imagery to help convey his distaste. Phrases such as "blood-shod," "obscene as cancer," and "helpless sight" contribute to Owen's portrayal of war as ugly and brutal. He also uses the structure of the poem to contribute to this image. The poem begins with very structured stanzas which then fall apart as the poem continues. This helps the reader feel the effects of war as they read.
The rhythm in this poem is best seen in the structure and rhyme of the stanzas. The poem uses an every other line rhyming scheme. This gives it a subtle sense of rhythm. However, as the stanzas fall apart, so does the rhyme. Both of these serve to interrupt the reader and make them uncomfortable, just as war does for the speaker.
The use of Latin points the reader back to Ancient Rome, when the poem the phrase is taken from originated. During this period of time, war was revered. Romans conquered most of Europe and viewed battle as glorious. In fact, Romans only received a name on their tomb if they died in battle or in childbirth. War was a celebrated and integral part of Roman life. The translation of the phrase helps drive this point home. It means "It is sweet and fitting to die for one's country." However, Owen maintains that this statement is a lie. This juxtaposition of the conventional and unconventional ways of thought shows how radical Owen's thinking was.
This poem is a reminder that war is not good. It destroys people to watch their friends die in front of them. The structure of this poem helps convey the helplessness soldiers feel as their world falls apart.
It seems like we had the same thoughts regarding the rhythm of the poem falling apart, and how Owen uses this to signify war. I also mentioned in my blog that I thought Owen strayed from his iambic pentameter to draw attention to the fact that many people have misconceptions about the outcomes of war, and these misconceptions are quickly corrected as one's war experience proceeds, and everything seems to "fall apart."
DeleteThat is a very interesting thought concerning the rhythm and rhyme of this poem. I never noticed how it fell apart, although I did notice the rhythmic patterns changing. There is a lot to poetry and I sometimes wonder if it is strategically planned in that creative and artistic way or if it is irony and our over analysis. Either way, it's impressive.
DeleteAshley, I also noticed the rhythm starting to fall apart as I read it. However, I didn't really think about it much when I was reading it. Looking back on it though, it makes a lot of sense why he didn't want it to be in iambic pentameter.
DeleteThe poem, Dulce Et Decorum Est presents the sad realities of a life at war, and invites the viewer to look deeper into the sentiments and dispositions of an individual who has experienced such hardships firsthand. The narrator of the poem has a certain attitude towards war that becomes evident as one studies the poem. From what I could see, the narrator views war as a hellish experience that robs one of their joy and carefree nature. The gruesome details such as "drunk with fatigue" or "he plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning" show just how horrid war can be. In my opinion, this viewpoint contrasts somewhat with many peoples' conception of war. While it is broadly known that war is anything but pleasant, many individuals feel that these struggles were worth it, as they made our country what it is today. This poem does not reflect those same sentiments.
ReplyDeleteThere is a distinct rhythm to the poem, although it was not entirely obvious to me at first. Firstly, the first paragraph is written in iambic pentameter. I did not realize this until I read it through a few times. I think this has some significance to the meaning of the poem, as it begins with a rather structured outlook, but this is quickly abandoned as a new rhythm is introduced in the proceeding paragraph. This kind of mirrors one's perception of war, as it is often entirely different as one experiences it. Additionally, I noticed that every other line in the poem rhymed. Again, I did not detect this at first, as I was too intrigued by the words themselves to worry about the rhythm. The rhyming of the poem presents itself in an odd way, as it does not sound cliche, nor does it sound like a nursery rhyme. Rather, it is almost concealed by the drastic wording.
It seems to me that the reason Owen included the Latin phrase at the end was to conceal a deeper meaning. If Owen had simply left the phrase in English, it would not have the same effect. Additionally, I think it's possible that Owen wanted to keep this significance hidden from the reader so that whoever read this poem would have to look up the phrase to fully understand the poem. This way, he can ensure that whoever reads the poem can fully comprehend it for what it is. I also think that there is some historical significance, but as I have very limited knowledge when it comes to history, I'm not entirely sure of this significance.
I like how you pointed out that the rhyming was no cliche. Sometimes rhyme can make a poem sound childish or uneducated, but this was not the case in Owen's poem. In fact, the rhyme was very subtle and almost unnoticeable during the reading. I believe this was helped by his use of other sophisticated diction throughout the lines. The vivid imagery he produces masks the rhyme of the poem. The rhyme was only apparent upon close scrutiny, which was thematically significant.
DeleteMary, we always talk about rhyming so I think it's funny you brought up this point! I think it's so much easier to write a poem if it rhymes but that's just me. I would much rather read a poem that doesn't rhyme, however. This poem was an exception because it wasn't the typical childish rhyming that you hear in some poems. I actually think his rhyming really added to the piece.
DeleteI agee, Mary. I believe Owen writes his last phrase in Latin to make the readers uncover the deeper meaning. It is like going on a treasure hunt to uncover a buried treasure, but instead of gold and riches, you are unveiling the thoughts of a person. It also invites people to think more about it because if you care to know more, you will translate the sentence. The people who care enough to then ponder it more.
DeleteI've decided that I really like Wilfred Owen. There's something very respectable about someone that can be that brutally honest. Also, I think this piece shows that the experiences you have in your life influence the way you view your environment. Owen's experiences make the way he viewed the poem a lot different than how I would view it with my experiences. I kind of find it funny whenever we are exposed to something that can be up to interpretation and different people always have their own spin on what they think it means.
ReplyDeleteOwen is very good at showing the audience the things they have not experienced. He uses imagery extensively to talk about war and back up his points about why he hates it. After he does so, it is not hard to see why he hates it. He talks about how terrible it is by using descriptive words such as glittering and obscene. By doing this, he achieves his goal of showing the audience what they don't know. the poem also has a definite rhythm which makes it flow well from one phrase to another. The flow of the poem fits with the meaning that it starts out okay, but it slowly starts to fall apart. It becomes choppy and awkward, falling in with the author's tone. I think the beginning of the poem is a juxtaposition to the real meaning of the poem.
Owen's honesty comes off a bit harsh, but I also have a lot of respect for him. He will not glorify what is wrong. Every time I think about war I am drawn back to Medal of Honor class. I have an extreme appreciation for these people, especially the one who are not afraid to tell their stories, good or bad. It takes a lot of strength to say what people do not want to hear.
DeleteI think it is also funny when there is something like this that is left up for interpretation, and people of course will go ahead and interpret it differently. But if everyone interpreted a piece of art exactly the same, where's the fun I'm arguing about who's interpretation is better? There wouldn't be. A world where everyone agreed with everyone else seems kinda lame. Everybody has their own story to tell. Even if people try to tell the same the story, it'll end up being a little bit different from person to person.
DeleteI think it is pretty obvious that Owen despises the very thought of war. But I mean, this isn't very shocking. Does anybody actually like war? Sure, it does some good stuff...like stimulate economic growth. But would you rather have something like economic growth with some casualties or a stagnant economy where every man, woman, and child gets to have their husband, wife, or family member come home? I think a poem like this drives home what the soldiers who serve our country think of that question. And with all the soldiers who come home with PTSD, who can really blame them for having this opinion? I know I do not blame them.
ReplyDeleteThe rhythm alluded me for quite a while...I'm not exactly the most adept at finding these things, so I was pretty much ready to just give up. But...then the image of Mrs. Messineo walking around the room in that ridiculous fashion made me realize that the first paragraph was written in iambic pentameter. I was so relieved. I had something to actually write down in my blog now. So I guess that walking style isn't really that ridiculous if I can remember stuff like that. The second and third paragraph's rhythm was extremely easy to notice, as every other line rhymed. I probably should've put that first, since I figured that out first...but...sorry about that.
I believe the purpose of that Latin phrase at the end was to signify that he didn't want to die overseas. After all, I think that would kind of suck to die in a jungle and get buried in the canopy. I would rather have a nice proper burial. More importantly than that though, I would love to die of old age some day with my family gathered around and Gustav Mahler's 5th Symphony playing in the background. Dying in a jungle with the sounds of bullets instead of the sound of music certainly does not exactly instill excitement. I would imagine a soldier would not differ in that thought.
I like how you pointed out about PTSD relaxing to this blog, Nick because I pointed it out before I even read yours. You are right. It is a sad death that soldiers are forced into when at war. Sadly, many people do not realize it because many people fail to look at the truths of war and how it affects soldiers. It is good to be proud of soldiers but it is even more imperative to understand their struggles.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWilfred Owen shows his abhorrence for war by using unflattering nouns and adjectives. In the very first line, Owen describes the soldiers as looking like "beggars under sacks." This paints an image as the soldiers being in need of mercy and help. The first paragraph is rotten in iambic pentameter, but as it goes on and Owen discusses more graphic, horrific sights, Owen does not keep his rhythm. It shows the loss war gives people and how the traumas can change your thinking. Something once seen as heroic and beautiful turned into something disastrous.
ReplyDeleteThe purpose of Owen using the Latin phrase for “It is sweet and fitting to die for one’s country'" is to show he has a deeper meaning that the reader must uncover. The Latin words strike the reader as being much more mellifluous and prettier than the simple English words. It contradicts the harsh language previously used to describe the war. This is fitting because it is deceptive. The beauty in the last line understates the heinous described before, and I think this helps because Owen is sharing his story to contradict the images of war. War is seen as patriotic, and soldiers are seen as heroes. This causes many people to overlook the atrocities committed in war. This poem would actually be really good propaganda for raising awareness for PTSD common among veterans. Many people get so lost in the glorification of soldiers that they forget the tool many soldiers took on their mind to keep their country safe.
I like how you interpreted the Latin phrase's use. I guess Latin can be considered a "romance", or just "pretty" language. But it seems a little bit startling that after all the harsh language that Owen uses to describe war he uses a beautiful language to describe his almost desire to return home. And even though the horrors of war may lessen when the soldiers are discharged, as you mentioned, the horrors are never truly gone, as many soldiers suffer from PTSD.
Delete